Monday, May 29, 2006

Just when is enough, enough?

Over on the Better Bibles Blog Wayne Leman says as part of a post;

"FWIW, Dr. Grudem has been practicing this kind of negative subjective dismissal of the TNIV for several years. I wish he would stop. His cause would be enhanced if he would just present evidence for his claims rather than trying to divine the motives of those with whom he disagrees."
"He does so with his long lists of supposed "inaccuracies" in the TNIV. He provides little, if any, evidence to support his claim of inaccuracy. The fact is that those are not necessarily inaccuracies, but differences of opinion about what is a better translation wording."

Now, in the first quote we are told that Dr Grudem should present evidence of his claims and then later in the same list of comments we have the second quote commenting on the evidence that doesn't exist.

Now, I have to say that I personally own books by Dr Grudem that supply not just the requested evidence (from the first quote), but do so with extensive references and notes, which also negates the second quote.

The evidence may not be to the liking of those that object, but it does exist and is very extensive.
As well as the books there is plenty of online material pointing out what worries Dr Grudem (and many, many others) with explanations, references & notes.


Blogger Wayne Leman said...

Glenn, I think you and I might be talked about two different (but probably related) things. I, also, have books by Dr. Grudem, probably the same books you do. I have the two versions of the book he co-authored with Vern Poythress about gender-inclusive Bible translation.

But those books do not give the Hebrew or Greek evidence for calling 3600 translation wordings in the TNIV "inaccuracies."

For instance, most Bible scholars agree that Romans 12:1 was probably written to all Christians in Rome, not just males. But Dr. Grudem prefers that the Greek word anthropoi in Rom. 12:1 be translated to English as "brothers." He lists Rom. 12:1 TNIV "brothers and sisters" as an inaccuracy. The facts of Greek are that if Romans was written to both males and females (and it most likely was) then the TNIV translation of anthropoi is more accurate than the ESV translation of that word. (Dr. Grudem worked on the ESV.)

There are many other examples like this in his big lists where Dr. Grudem simply lists verses in the TNIV as being inaccurate, but he does not cite evidence that they are. Many of his statements do not align with what is widely known about the meanings of words in Biblical Hebrew and Greek.

I know that he means well. His intentions are to protect God's Word from inaccuracy. I cannot fault him in that. I want to do the same thing. But he has misled millions of people who have read his books and listened to him on the radio or elsewhere. He, of course, doesn't know that he is misleading them. It is important for others to try to show more accurate ways of understanding the meaning of the biblical words.

10:32 pm  
Blogger Glennsp said...

Hi Wayne,
The book I had in mind is 'Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth'.
Now although not strictly or solely about bible translation you would find some very detailed responses to particular problems regarding various Bible verses and there misuse/abuse.
Thank you for clearing up the misunderstanding about your stance regarding egalitarianism, but I have to say that is how it comes across on your blog.
I apologise for putting you into a camp to which you do not belong.

10:31 am  
Blogger Wayne Leman said...

No problems, Glenn. Let's keep talking and trying to understand each other as well as possible.

1 Cor. 15:58

2:49 pm  

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